This is a transcript for “Pyramid on a Plate #1: Healthy Chinese Food Exposed,” dated April 29, 2008.

Nina: Hi, this is Nina Simonds for Spices of Life. Today I’m in a Chinese restaurant and I’m thrilled to have Dr. Eric Rimm, who is an associate professor at the Harvard School of Public Health. So what we’re going to do today is to dispel some myths about Chinese restaurant food. I think it’s relevant to say that CSPI – the Center for Science in the Public Interest, a watchdog agency based in Washington that focuses on nutritional issues – has come out with a study pointing out that restaurant Chinese food is very high in fat and sodium, which is true. Correct, Eric?

Eric: Yes, it is. It was a really interesting study, because there is a wide range of food that you can get from a Chinese restaurant. There is a fair bit of hidden sodium and also some of the dishes have a high amount of fat.

Nina: It’s also true that we do need some fat. Correct?

Eric: Yes, of course we need some fat. In fact, some of the fat they use in Chinese restaurants is good because it’s liquid vegetable oil. So some of the things they use for stir-frying are beneficial. We do want to have some fat in our meal.

Nina: The one thing that I felt – I had problems with this study. It was a little bit sensational and misleading. I think it’s easy, if you know the right way to order, to have a very healthy, according-to-the-pyramid, meal in a Chinese restaurant.

Eric: And that’s the great thing about a Chinese restaurant. You open the menu and you have 50 or 100 or 150 choices. Of course they picked out the ones that are commonly consumed, but also those that are really high in sodium or those that may be high in saturated fat. You just have to pick out the right foods and be smart about it. There’s a lot of options.

Nina: And that’s what I thought. I thought that we would really bring everyone full circle, and challenge you, Dr. Eric Rimm, to eat healthily, but also pleasurably. We want this to be a delicious meal, so everyone feels they won’t be hungry an hour later. They’re going to come out and really be satisfied, and also eat according to the USDA pyramid. This restaurant offers brown rice as well as white rice.

Eric: Sometimes it’s not on the menu, you just have to ask for it. But I think that’s one of the things that will actually help you stay full, an hour or two hours after a Chinese meal. A lot of people order white rice and that gets digested very quickly. It actually does make you feel a little more hungry two or three hours after the meal. Stick with the brown rice and I think that will help a lot.

Nina: Okay, let’s look at the menu and order some delicious, USDA approved, Dr. Eric Rimm approved, dishes. Let’s order a meal and have a great time.

Eric: Sounds great to me.

CK Sao (CK Shanghai): Too much oil, too much grease, isn’t good for people’s health.

Eric: What kind of oil do you use when you stir-fry?

CK: Peanut.

Eric: Wow! Excellent.

Nina: That’s expensive, so a lot of restaurants don’t want to use it.

Eric: Alright, let’s try this. I guess if you were trying to take the pyramid and condense it down to a plate at a Chinese restaurant – it’s a circle, so you’re kind of stuck with that shape, but you could draw some pyramids within your circle. You would set aside this much for the brown rice. Any great Chinese meal is going to have some vegetables either mixed in, or as the main course, and that should be a pretty big portion of what you have. That can include a whole range of things that you can get at a restaurant, but the greens should be at least a third, or maybe even a half of what you’re going to eat there. And again, I think it’s important to have a few different kinds. That’s the shrimp! That’s over here in the protein. We’ll have the vegetable protein and the animal protein.

Nina: So the shrimp goes in the animal protein.

Eric: And if you want to have some bean curd or some other kind of protein, that would go over here in the vegetable protein.

Nina: Here’s some Ma-Po Tofu. It’s a little saucy but good.

Eric: For someone my size, this might not be quite enough. But the idea of the pyramid, and the way the USDA has it set up, is that everybody compares what they eat to how much they exercise. Because if you exercise, you burn more calories and you need more calories. But this might be perfect for the average-sized female, who needs 1600 calories a day.

Nina: How many calories do you need if you don’t exercize?

Eric: Between 1600 and 1800. Look at that. That’s the perfect Chinese meal. No fried foods here, because there is a lot of hidden fat in that. You want to have some fat, and we have some in the shrimp and stir-fried vegetables, so that’s good. We have the brown rice instead of the white rice, and we have a lot of different vegetable sources.

Nina: And you could have a glass of wine. Red?

Eric: Red or white. In fact, if you’re at a Chinese restaurant you could get a great beer. One or two drinks a day is great.

Nina: Thank you Eric!

Eric: Cheers!

Nina: Great. Thank you Eric, and this is Nina Simonds at Spices of Life and we’re trying to make a difference.